[livejournal.com profile] curefreak's latest poll got me thinking about moral relativism.

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Poll #671705]
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From: [identity profile] ulva.livejournal.com


I assume you're meaning if your principles maches your actual conduct. These days they do because I have stopped trying to be somone I'm not. And people who say it's baaaaaad to not be 100 % honest and always abiding high standard moral or principles are usually not really honest IMNSHO. There's not one person who haven't violated their own standards at one point or another. Or other moral rules for that matter.

As [livejournal.com profile] captain_lila said last week...
"It's a pity to have principles. Or you can have them but it's important to ignore them when it feels right."
ext_15855: (Scorpy)

From: [identity profile] lizblackdog.livejournal.com


That girl has an absolute genius for squeezing really vital concepts into very simple sentences. She awes me.

...I have thoughts about this but I have to dash out of the house now. Later, my heart.

From: [identity profile] ulva.livejournal.com

That girl has an absolute genius for squeezing really vital concepts into very simple sentences.


[T'Pol] Agreed. [/T'Pol]

No wonder Anders reacted so strongly when I emailed him that little snippet of Sunshine Wisdom...

From: [identity profile] emily-shore.livejournal.com


I consider myself to have fairly strict moral standards for myself at least, and I know that I sometimes fail to meet them. But I would much rather have standards that I fail to live up to, than to give up and downgrade my expectations. To give up your ideals just because you can't meet them would feel very unpleasantly like giving in. I'd rather have something to aspire to.

From: [identity profile] ulva.livejournal.com


Well I ceratinly understand that POV. However, I feel it's not as important to form principles to follow as to try and keep the respect for the world around. And besides, as you learn from life you can't help but adjust your views. Life is a complicated place which requires flexibilty and an ability to understand the people around you.

I for one haven't given up on ideals although I am a lot less idealistic these days. If there's one thing I have learned so far it's to try and be open minded in situations. It's so easy to say that I would do A of B happens. Quite often when you're in the said situation... it's simply a lot more difficult than anticipated. Therefore I have become a lot more realistic and I also have realised that I can't expect too much of other people.

From: [identity profile] emily-shore.livejournal.com


Perhaps we're defining "principles" differently. I would consider "respecting the world around you" as being a fundamental moral principle that one could use in order to guide one's decisions.

Basically, I'm a Utilitarian... I believe that the most moral choice is the one that gives the greatest happiness to the greatest number. But as you said, the world is a complex and difficult place, and I may often be wrong in how I assess which choice is the right one.

I come up with general principles as a way of guiding my moral choices. They may not be fundamental in themselves, but they are there to stop me from having to go back to first principles every time I make a decision. I can, of course, always re-assess my principles and decide that they are not actually helping me.

From: [identity profile] ulva.livejournal.com

Perhaps we're defining "principles" differently.


Sounds like it. To me moral and principles are... suffocating and rigid things. They're more in place to keep people in check than to actually help you navigate in life. To me respect and empathy is the basis for how I live my life among my fellow humans. It has of course the downside that if I lose respect for someone it also has implications on my behaviour towards them but I try and step away if that happens.

I smiled slightly when I read what you said about being Utilitarian...

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.


And somehow I think that's one of the most idealistic views you can have.

From: [identity profile] arkady.livejournal.com


I don't think being a moral relativist is a bad thing... but then I am one. So take that how you will.

From: [identity profile] cottonmanifesto.livejournal.com


I'm all for doing whatever you want as long as you're not malevolently harming others. Like no snacking on babies, child rape, and stuff like that.

From: [identity profile] santaman.livejournal.com


Meh big words moral what?

I'm me, i like me, some people like me, some don't, thats life, as for my principles and priority's in life, well i make them up as i go along, always adjusting them because i learn and experience things, i am always true to myself though and to my friends.

As for Lila.. *just smiles*

From: [identity profile] emily-shore.livejournal.com


I don't think I'm a moral absolutist, because I at least recognise that other people may have very different moral codes than me, and that those moral codes may well be defensible. I don't think that my moral code is the unalterable standard by which all others should be judge. I'm willing to be persuaded that I'm wrong about things, and I hope that other people feel the same. All we can do is strive to be more moral...we can never hope to attain the final goal. The world is just too complicated for us to figure out how our actions affect others.

On the other hand, I wouldn't call myself a moral relativist either. I don't think that all actions are equally acceptable, equally moral or immoral. I don't think that just because a culture values certain traditions, whether that be female genital mutilation or blind patriotism, it means that those traditions are unchallengable. To say "well, that's their moral code, it's all right for them" seems to be to be an abdication of responsibility, and rather naieve.

From: [identity profile] james-the-evil1.livejournal.com


I said "maybe" 'cause I think there're some things that should be absolute, and others that're mutable

From: [identity profile] curefreak.livejournal.com


I have authority issues. I want to know "WHY" I am supposed to do something. Being told "Because I said so" does not work for me.

I run to my own moral code, as this is my life. I try not to hurt others because, I don't like hurting them, not because it is "wrong".

I never signed a contract when I was born saying I would obey the moral majority, or laws. Yes, obviously society has influenced and shaped me, but I am not its pawn. I don't behave the way I do to avoid punishment from society, moreover I behave the way I do so that I don't hurt people and ultimately (and instictively selfishly), so I am a happier person within myself.

From: [identity profile] emily-shore.livejournal.com


But the fact that you don't obey the moral majority doesn't necessarily imply that you are a moral relativist, of course...

From: [identity profile] curefreak.livejournal.com


Oh I completely agree. A clinical psychopath for example, who is almost entirely ruled by his ID, is not a moral relativist.

I just used this an opportunity to go on a mini "ordered anarchistic" tangent/rant ;)

From: [identity profile] emily-shore.livejournal.com


Fair enough. I think I agree with most of what you said. :)
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